277 lines
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277 lines
16 KiB
Plaintext
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<p>I was interviewed by Kristoffer Balintona from Brown University about my
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participation in the free software and Emacs communities, as well as
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general themes related to university education and mountain life.</p>
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<p>The publication is <a href="https://browninterviews.org/stand-up-and-tell-people-that-you-cannot-just-be-the-red-carpet-upon-which-others-will-parade-brown-interviews-protesilaos-stavrou/">“Stand up and tell people that you cannot just be
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the red carpet upon which others will parade.” — Brown Interviews
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Protesilaos
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Stavrou</a>.</p>
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<p>Quote from the introduction:</p>
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<blockquote>
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<p>Born in Greece in 1988, Protesilaos Stavrou is involved in the
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<a href="https://opensource.com/resources/linux">Linux</a> (alternative to
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Windows and MacOS; an open-source operating system) and
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<a href="https://opensource.com/resources/what-emacs">Emacs</a> (extensible and
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versatile text editing software used by programmers, authors,
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bloggers, and more) communities. Stavrou is a philosopher; he releases
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video essays on
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/ProtesilaosStavrou/videos">YouTube</a> and
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writings on his <a href="https://protesilaos.com/">blog</a> which blend distant
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philosophies related to free and open source software and Unix to law
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and politics. Stavrou has a formal education in European politics, law
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and economics, intellectually specializing in the European Union’s
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Economic and Monetary Union and having previously worked in
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politics-related fields including as a parliamentary assistant at the
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European Parliament.</p>
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<p>In this interview we discuss his experience building a small yet loyal
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internet following, the philosophy of thinking for yourself and living
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on your own terms, the role of a university education, living in the
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mountains, and the facets of his humanity not often revealed online.</p>
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</blockquote>
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<p>Thanks to Kristoffer Balintona for approaching me for a call and then
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transcribing the whole thing!</p>
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<hr />
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<p>P.S. The picture in the interview is from April (I had to borrow a phone
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to take it). In other words, the beard is longer now :)</p>
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<!-- The following is just a backup in case Brown Interviews ever disappears. -->
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<!-- Kristoffer Balintona: Let’s talk about your YouTube channel. Why did you
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!-- decide to make one?
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!--
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!-- Protesilaos Stavrou: I actually wanted to practice my English. I know it
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!-- seems odd since my content is not at all related to that, but I used to
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!-- live in Brussels, the capital of Belgium. When I came back to Cyprus a
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!-- few years ago, all I could speak was Greek. I wasn’t practicing English
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!-- nor French at all. So my first motivation to produce YouTube videos was
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!-- simply to practice my English. It was mostly me just recording my voice,
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!-- I didn’t care about reaching out to a specific audience and didn’t have
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!-- a predetermined plan. It was only afterwards that I discovered free
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!-- software on Linux as well as Emacs which gave me something more concrete
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!-- and a niche to focus on. From there, my channel grew organically.
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!--
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!-- Unlike other YouTubers, your channel seems unconcerned with growing its
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!-- following. Is that accurate?
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!--
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!-- You’re right, I don’t really care about the channel per se. For me, the
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!-- channel itself, whether it grows, whether it makes money, or whether it
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!-- becomes popular, is not really of interest. In my opinion, if you put
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!-- something like that as your number-one goal, then, whatever you do, you
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!-- will instrumentalize that motive in order to pursue that end. If you
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!-- have to conform with expectations then you will become the embodiment of
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!-- those expectations and you will no longer be yourself. Instead, you will
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!-- become someone that conforms with those expectations which will
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!-- inevitably dilute what you have to say. Whereas, if you are true to
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!-- yourself, you don’t need to do that. It will be sustainable; you can do
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!-- it forever.
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!--
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!-- I think you should put yourself first and then the audience will follow.
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!-- Even if there is no audience, what matters is whether you can be
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!-- yourself and get the most out of what you are doing. For me that is, at
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!-- the end of the day, an intellectual activity that broadens my mind and
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!-- satisfies an innate curiosity.
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!--
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!-- Then what are your goals for the channel, if you have any at all?
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!--
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!-- I don’t want others to follow my channel or to follow me in particular,
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!-- in the sense of tracking the minutiae of my life. I want others to focus
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!-- more on the principles I talk about. I see the world under political,
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!-- social, and human terms, which is not the case for most of those in the
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!-- Linux and Emacs communities. Reality does not consist of each person
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!-- living in their own bubble; there are systemic magnitudes and structural
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!-- issues. Regardless of the topic, I want it to be useful to others by
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!-- speaking in a way that can be applied generally to everyday life. For
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!-- me, the only long-term objective for the channel is to keep growing
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!-- organically and for it to continue being a place where I post my
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!-- thoughts in the way I do now. So as long as I get to do my thing, this
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!-- will remain a hobby rather than a job. I don’t see it as something that
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!-- has to pay dividends.
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!--
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!-- What has been the most pleasant lesson you’ve learned from posting
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!-- YouTube videos and blogging?
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!--
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!-- What surprised me the most was that there exists a whole social and
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!-- human element to the free and open source software communities. I
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!-- receive emails [from those who have seen my videos] practically every
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!-- day now where I discuss topics pertaining to technology but also life in
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!-- general. I became impressed by the vibrant communities I found that
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!-- exist around these tools.
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!--
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!-- I learned that they are not just tools; they are also what keeps us
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!-- together and I am very happy to be part of this community. These
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!-- software are developed by a distributed network of volunteers willing to
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!-- disseminate knowledge that has been processed or considered thoroughly,
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!-- which is incredibly inspiring. When you are in this kind of community,
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!-- you really want to put the best version of yourself out there and be
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!-- useful to others.
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!--
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!-- What life lessons did you learn from your university experience?
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!--
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!-- I studied European politics, law, and economics, which is an
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!-- interdisciplinary study. My focus was on European Integration: how the
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!-- EU (European Union) has gone from a small coalition of states centered
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!-- around a specific set of interests into today’s federal system of sorts.
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!-- I’m not interested in politics in the narrow sense of party politics or
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!-- in the sense of what person X says about situation A. I am mostly
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!-- interested in the bigger picture, which includes not just the political
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!-- process — party politics — but also economic implications with social
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!-- and cultural dimensions. There is always a broader narrative, something
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!-- that we can extract and generalize independent of the specifics of the
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!-- case.
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!--
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!-- Even though I attended university, I came from a working class
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!-- background. I didn’t necessarily have the prospects to succeed. Going
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!-- into university was actually a luxury for people in my income
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!-- distribution. I had to work full time. I didn’t have the university life
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!-- of going into campus, going to classes, and then having free time. For
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!-- me to attend university and have to study and work full time wasn’t
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!-- easy. I was not particularly talented either.
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!--
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!-- Nevertheless, I actually learned more than what was expected because I
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!-- didn’t miss any classes. When we would have homework, the professor
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!-- would give us three or four chapters from a book to study, but I would
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!-- read the entire book because I wanted to learn. It wasn’t about the
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!-- homework itself or the degree; it was about learning the content. Even
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!-- over the weekends, I would study if I wasn’t preoccupied with my job.
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!--
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!-- As someone who provides a comprehensive and free resource for
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!-- autodidacts, what role do you think formal schooling plays in education?
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!--
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!-- The university itself cannot teach you anything. You have to teach
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!-- yourself. Of course, it offers you a platform to learn. It offers you
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!-- everything that you need access to: libraries, one-on-one meetings with
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!-- professionals who are experts in their field, like-minded peers.
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!-- However, at the end of the day, they cannot do the work for you. You are
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!-- the one who has to read the books, study on your own, and think things
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!-- through. It’s about learning for your own betterment.
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!--
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!-- And, of course, when it comes to making sense of the world, when it’s no
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!-- longer about assignments, that broadened horizon really helps you see
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!-- the bigger picture. University is its own little bubble where you are
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!-- safe if you follow the rules and get good grades. You will learn a lot,
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!-- of course, but when it comes to the outside world, the world beyond the
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!-- confines of the university, you really need to learn to think for
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!-- yourself, not just whatever box you were placed in at school,
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!-- university, et cetera.
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!--
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!-- I am aware that you moved to a remote area in the mountains. What
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!-- prompted that decision? Is that related to your belief that we should
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!-- always think for ourselves?
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!--
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!-- Yes. I grew up in a small city in Greece and lived most of my life in
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!-- urban areas. I currently live in mountains located in Cyprus, which is
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!-- an island in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea. I saw this as an
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!-- experiment: I thought I would take the risk and see what happens. Going
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!-- back is always an option if I change my mind or get bored and is really
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!-- the worst case. The reason for this decision was that I wanted a change
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!-- of pace. I wanted someplace that would be literally and metaphorically
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!-- far away from the urban “EU bubble” that I felt I was in when living in
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!-- Brussels.
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!--
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!-- I didn’t always have this mindset. My mindset used to be: “Let’s focus
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!-- on the task that I have to do. Let’s just conform with the rules of the
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!-- game. Let’s just do what we are told to do and see how it goes from
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!-- there.” The point is that I thought I was happy. I had fun and work to
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!-- do — and enjoyed those moments — but I started to feel that I was not
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!-- moving at the pace where I felt I was 100% committed to what I was
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!-- doing. I was thinking that I wanted to move in a different direction. I
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!-- wanted to go one way, but life was taking me another way. My lifestyle
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!-- needed to change. At the time, I was feeling this tension, but I
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!-- couldn’t specify it. So, I wanted to take a step back and see how things
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!-- stand and reassess them by listening to my mind. I wanted to withdraw,
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!-- take things in, think things through, and then commit again.
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!--
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!-- I think I was really asking myself this: “What are your priorities? Do
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!-- you want to put your own wellness first or what is best for your
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!-- employer first?” For me, I wanted to prioritize my wellness. If I am
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!-- well, if I am fine with myself, if I am focused on what I’m doing, then,
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!-- of course, I can also perform in my work. On the other hand, if I must
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!-- follow someone else’s schedule or lifestyle, there will be friction
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!-- which causes me to not feel 100% comfortable. I won’t be 100% committed
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!-- to the cause. Thus, I wanted to take control and see whether I can turn
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!-- things around.
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!--
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!-- It may have been drastic, but it was effective. It has helped me a lot
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!-- to escape from the fast pace of city life.
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!--
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!-- Would you say that your Linux and Emacs journey is a manifestation of
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!-- those values?
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!--
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!-- Yes, but I would say that those are epiphenomena, the things that
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!-- happened afterwards. What preceded them was this exact change in
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!-- mentality. This shift in mindset into a gradually more deliberate
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!-- lifestyle, a lifestyle where I control more of the factors that affect
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!-- my life. So that was the general principle; to be in control of as many
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!-- factors as possible. Of course, I cannot control everything, but to at
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!-- least be in charge of whatever I can. This inspired me to search for
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!-- alternatives for the software I used to use. And, of course, part of
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!-- that process was the discovery of Linux and all the other free software
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!-- tools in the free software space, including Emacs.
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!--
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!-- What have you learned specifically from living in the mountains?
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!--
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!-- Since coming here, I’ve learned a lot from a new freedom to think and
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!-- commit to work without any distractions. For example, every morning I go
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!-- hiking for an hour or so. Ten kilometers (6.21 miles) is now a regular
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!-- walk for me. I think this basic level of fitness can really help your
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!-- intellectual pursuits. For example, I wake up in the morning and have
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!-- lots of energy because I am in this regular cycle of good fitness and
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!-- diet. This gives me the energy needed for the clarity of mind to pursue
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!-- other interests. In Ancient Greece it was said that “A healthy mind
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!-- exists within a healthy body.” I also hike for the opportunity to be
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!-- alone in the mountains with nature. I get the chance to withdraw from
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!-- all the noise, literally and metaphorically, and to freely think about
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!-- my projects and clarify my thoughts.
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!--
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!-- But there is also simply the awesomeness of nature. When I stand on a
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!-- mountaintop and I see the various open horizons, mountain ranges,
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!-- landscapes, and forests, it really revitalizes me. It’s a special
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!-- experience that I never had in an urban setting.
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!--
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!-- Besides hiking, are there any other hobbies viewers might be surprised
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!-- to hear you have?
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!--
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!-- I used to be a football player, particularly a midfielder. The reason I
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!-- didn’t become a professional is because of an injury. Of course, I enjoy
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!-- sports in general. I like to exercise: hiking, running, calisthenics.
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!-- These are things which I have been doing since I was in my teens. I also
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!-- like to learn about herbs that I come across in the area. After a walk
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!-- or hike, I come home and search online for the indigenous ferns and read
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!-- about their properties and uses.
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!--
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!-- You’ve mentioned your dog. Does he ever accompany you on your
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!-- adventures?
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!--
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!-- Of course! I really like all animals. I do have a dog (cross-breed
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!-- between a German Shepherd Dog and an American Pitbull Terrier) named
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!-- Atlas, but I also like cats and all sorts of other animals. I have taken
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!-- care of dogs for several years, and I see my dogs as part of the family.
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!-- They aren’t just pets. They’re really your friends and can help in all
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!-- sorts of ways. They’re also my hiking partners — there’s always a dog by
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!-- my side when I go out into the mountains.
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!--
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!-- Finally, if you had to give your nineteen-year-old self advice, what
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!-- would it be?
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!--
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!-- In life, you should not always try to accommodate other people’s wants.
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!-- At some point you should draw a line and say, “Look, I understand your
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!-- circumstances, but you also have to take me into your own account and my
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!-- own subjectivity, personality, and specific way of operating.” I think
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!-- this is especially true for people who are, like me, quiet and don’t
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!-- speak much. I know this may sound weird because all my videos are
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!-- basically monologues, but I am the silent, introverted type. So for a
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!-- person like me, it’s even more difficult to stand up and say, “Hey, you
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!-- need to think of me as well.” Stand up and tell people that you cannot
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!-- just be the red carpet upon which others will parade.
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!--
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!-- *This interview has been edited for length and clarity. -->
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